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	<title>Comments on: Unconventional Thinking: Renting as an Investment</title>
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	<link>http://www.americanconsumernews.com/2007/01/unconventional-thinking-renting-as-an-investment.html</link>
	<description>News for Consumers in Changing Times</description>
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		<title>By: Jack</title>
		<link>http://www.americanconsumernews.com/2007/01/unconventional-thinking-renting-as-an-investment.html/comment-page-1#comment-473</link>
		<dc:creator>Jack</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Mar 2007 08:28:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.americanconsumernews.com/2007/01/unconventional-thinking-renting-as-an-investment.html#comment-473</guid>
		<description>Interesting article. But not very well thought-out. As a renter, you have no interest deduction on your income taxes. Obviously, interest is a deduction not a credit, so there is not a 1 to 1 correlation, but still, that savings in taxes to Uncle Sam (or whomever your country&#039;s taxing authority may be) significantly reduces your real dollar expense when you own vs. when you rent.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;fivecentnickel brought up a good point. When you buy a home, your payment is always the same (if you have a conventional fixed-rate mortgage) which means that 15 years down the line, your mortgage payment of $1500/mo is still $1500/mo. But those dollars 15 years from now aren&#039;t worth the dollars of now. Your rent, on the other hand, will be the same rent 15 years from now, in real dollar terms. It has to be that way, otherwise your landlord is nuts or very altruistic.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;And, as bil and others have said, using an &quot;average&quot; appreciation of non-real estate investments is a fallacy. Your ability to pay $750 of rent is completely dependent on your realization of your investment income, while your ability to pay a $750 mortgage payment has nothing to do with anything except what your ability was when you entered into the mortgage contract in the first place. What happens if your investment income goes away for a period of 3 years due to a financial crisis? How will you pay your rent, unless your draw down your initial investment? So when the market finally upticks, you&#039;ve got far less invested than your originally did. Granted, over a time period of 20 years, a 10% average looks sound, but year by year and even month by month, there can be huge swings. 3 months of negative growth will kill you.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;You also brought up homeowner insurance vs. renter insurance. Apples and Oranges. Renter insurance only covers the crap in your rented unit. It does NOT cover the cost to replace that rental unit. Homeowners insurance does cover the cost to replace your house. So you can&#039;t really compare them.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;All in all, your suggestion is not a good one. Well intended but not well thought-out.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting article. But not very well thought-out. As a renter, you have no interest deduction on your income taxes. Obviously, interest is a deduction not a credit, so there is not a 1 to 1 correlation, but still, that savings in taxes to Uncle Sam (or whomever your country&#8217;s taxing authority may be) significantly reduces your real dollar expense when you own vs. when you rent.</p>
<p>fivecentnickel brought up a good point. When you buy a home, your payment is always the same (if you have a conventional fixed-rate mortgage) which means that 15 years down the line, your mortgage payment of $1500/mo is still $1500/mo. But those dollars 15 years from now aren&#8217;t worth the dollars of now. Your rent, on the other hand, will be the same rent 15 years from now, in real dollar terms. It has to be that way, otherwise your landlord is nuts or very altruistic.</p>
<p>And, as bil and others have said, using an &#8220;average&#8221; appreciation of non-real estate investments is a fallacy. Your ability to pay $750 of rent is completely dependent on your realization of your investment income, while your ability to pay a $750 mortgage payment has nothing to do with anything except what your ability was when you entered into the mortgage contract in the first place. What happens if your investment income goes away for a period of 3 years due to a financial crisis? How will you pay your rent, unless your draw down your initial investment? So when the market finally upticks, you&#8217;ve got far less invested than your originally did. Granted, over a time period of 20 years, a 10% average looks sound, but year by year and even month by month, there can be huge swings. 3 months of negative growth will kill you.</p>
<p>You also brought up homeowner insurance vs. renter insurance. Apples and Oranges. Renter insurance only covers the crap in your rented unit. It does NOT cover the cost to replace that rental unit. Homeowners insurance does cover the cost to replace your house. So you can&#8217;t really compare them.</p>
<p>All in all, your suggestion is not a good one. Well intended but not well thought-out.</p>
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		<title>By: TLVancouver</title>
		<link>http://www.americanconsumernews.com/2007/01/unconventional-thinking-renting-as-an-investment.html/comment-page-1#comment-458</link>
		<dc:creator>TLVancouver</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Mar 2007 15:50:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.americanconsumernews.com/2007/01/unconventional-thinking-renting-as-an-investment.html#comment-458</guid>
		<description>This assumes that you put 100% down on your home. At 10% down, if the $100,000 property appreciates 5%, you&#039;ve had a 50% return (granted the inverse is true on a loss!)&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;I think a lot depends on the market you&#039;re in. In Vancouver BC for example, the market has gone through the roof, so it is possible to rent a lovely house in a great neighborhood for significantly less than the carrying costs of ownership (with house prices at averaging 500K).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This assumes that you put 100% down on your home. At 10% down, if the $100,000 property appreciates 5%, you&#8217;ve had a 50% return (granted the inverse is true on a loss!)</p>
<p>I think a lot depends on the market you&#8217;re in. In Vancouver BC for example, the market has gone through the roof, so it is possible to rent a lovely house in a great neighborhood for significantly less than the carrying costs of ownership (with house prices at averaging 500K).</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.americanconsumernews.com/2007/01/unconventional-thinking-renting-as-an-investment.html/comment-page-1#comment-457</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Mar 2007 14:42:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.americanconsumernews.com/2007/01/unconventional-thinking-renting-as-an-investment.html#comment-457</guid>
		<description>At the beginning of the article, you ask the question: &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;&lt;i&gt;What if there was a way that you could have the best of both worlds?&lt;/i&gt;&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Yet renting an apartment versus owning a home are two very different experiences.  It would be very hard for me to have a large garage to work on my cars and a large patio and backyard to host bbqs on if I was renting an apartment.  If I wanted the &quot;best of both worlds&quot; I&#039;d have to rent an equivalent house and the cost would be nearly the same as paying a mortgage.  My monthly savings would be fairly slim and as others have pointed out, over the long term, my rent would go up while my mortgage payment will stay the same.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Also, I am not a huge supporter of the &quot;primary residence as an investment&quot; school.  Renting or buying a home should not be about which saves you more money.  It should be about your current needs, wants, and means.  When my wife and I were younger and poorer, renting was all we could afford.  Now that we are farther along in our careers and have a baby, I&#039;d rather have the bonuses that come with owning a house.  I could care less if it is the most lucrative &quot;investment&quot;, financial speaking, but I feel it is a good investment for my family&#039;s happiness.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;In the end, money isn&#039;t everything.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>At the beginning of the article, you ask the question: </p>
<p><i>What if there was a way that you could have the best of both worlds?</i></p>
<p>Yet renting an apartment versus owning a home are two very different experiences.  It would be very hard for me to have a large garage to work on my cars and a large patio and backyard to host bbqs on if I was renting an apartment.  If I wanted the &#8220;best of both worlds&#8221; I&#8217;d have to rent an equivalent house and the cost would be nearly the same as paying a mortgage.  My monthly savings would be fairly slim and as others have pointed out, over the long term, my rent would go up while my mortgage payment will stay the same.</p>
<p>Also, I am not a huge supporter of the &#8220;primary residence as an investment&#8221; school.  Renting or buying a home should not be about which saves you more money.  It should be about your current needs, wants, and means.  When my wife and I were younger and poorer, renting was all we could afford.  Now that we are farther along in our careers and have a baby, I&#8217;d rather have the bonuses that come with owning a house.  I could care less if it is the most lucrative &#8220;investment&#8221;, financial speaking, but I feel it is a good investment for my family&#8217;s happiness.</p>
<p>In the end, money isn&#8217;t everything.</p>
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		<title>By: plonkee</title>
		<link>http://www.americanconsumernews.com/2007/01/unconventional-thinking-renting-as-an-investment.html/comment-page-1#comment-448</link>
		<dc:creator>plonkee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Mar 2007 17:07:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Even if you do an ARM, eventually your mortgage payments will be a lot less than the equivalent rent  as the amount you borrowed in the first place is reduced in real terms by inflation.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;I think the main difficulty is in not having $100,000 cash to start off with.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Even if you do an ARM, eventually your mortgage payments will be a lot less than the equivalent rent  as the amount you borrowed in the first place is reduced in real terms by inflation.</p>
<p>I think the main difficulty is in not having $100,000 cash to start off with.</p>
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		<title>By: Bil</title>
		<link>http://www.americanconsumernews.com/2007/01/unconventional-thinking-renting-as-an-investment.html/comment-page-1#comment-446</link>
		<dc:creator>Bil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Mar 2007 16:32:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.americanconsumernews.com/2007/01/unconventional-thinking-renting-as-an-investment.html#comment-446</guid>
		<description>&quot;The stock market has averaged 12% over long periods of time, so we can reasonably withdraw 9% and still gain 3% for inflation.&quot;&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;This doesn&#039;t really hold up to reality, because what you&#039;re implying is:&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;&quot;The stock market has averaged 12% &lt;b&gt;over long periods&lt;/b&gt; of time, so we can reasonably withdraw 9% &lt;b&gt;yearly&lt;/b&gt; and still gain 3% for inflation.&quot;&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;If the market has a down year (or even a flat year), then withdrawing 9% will leave you with a lower amount for growth than you started with at the beginning of the year.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;If you have a couple down years in a row at the beginning of this plan, then your entire investment plan just went out the window.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Of course, a few exceptionally good years in the beginning and you&#039;re set for a long time, but of course you never know what the market&#039;s going to do.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;The stock market has averaged 12% over long periods of time, so we can reasonably withdraw 9% and still gain 3% for inflation.&#8221;</p>
<p>This doesn&#8217;t really hold up to reality, because what you&#8217;re implying is:</p>
<p>&#8220;The stock market has averaged 12% <b>over long periods</b> of time, so we can reasonably withdraw 9% <b>yearly</b> and still gain 3% for inflation.&#8221;</p>
<p>If the market has a down year (or even a flat year), then withdrawing 9% will leave you with a lower amount for growth than you started with at the beginning of the year.</p>
<p>If you have a couple down years in a row at the beginning of this plan, then your entire investment plan just went out the window.</p>
<p>Of course, a few exceptionally good years in the beginning and you&#8217;re set for a long time, but of course you never know what the market&#8217;s going to do.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.americanconsumernews.com/2007/01/unconventional-thinking-renting-as-an-investment.html/comment-page-1#comment-445</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Mar 2007 15:25:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.americanconsumernews.com/2007/01/unconventional-thinking-renting-as-an-investment.html#comment-445</guid>
		<description>So the only way to profit off renting is to have bought a home in the first place.  Hmm. Of course if I had money for a mortage in the first place I wouldn&#039;t be renting.  But yes I do have some money in the stock market, of course, not enough for home ownership but still.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So the only way to profit off renting is to have bought a home in the first place.  Hmm. Of course if I had money for a mortage in the first place I wouldn&#8217;t be renting.  But yes I do have some money in the stock market, of course, not enough for home ownership but still.</p>
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		<title>By: fivecentnickel.com</title>
		<link>http://www.americanconsumernews.com/2007/01/unconventional-thinking-renting-as-an-investment.html/comment-page-1#comment-59</link>
		<dc:creator>fivecentnickel.com</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Jan 2007 18:26:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.americanconsumernews.com/2007/01/unconventional-thinking-renting-as-an-investment.html#comment-59</guid>
		<description>If you choose to buy a house, your payment remains level (unless you do an ARM) over the life of your mortgage. If you rent, it will likely increase each and every year. Thus, by buying, you&#039;re locking in a price.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you choose to buy a house, your payment remains level (unless you do an ARM) over the life of your mortgage. If you rent, it will likely increase each and every year. Thus, by buying, you&#8217;re locking in a price.</p>
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